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Cnc talk
My speaker building is tailoring off but some other projects are starting to enter my mind for home imrpovement stuff. However people always ask for baffles so thats a possibility on the side. Im teying to find a machine that is stiffer than a hobby machine and cut at a reasonable rate. Ive saw some videos of the xcarve with stock spindle take 30-40 minutes to cut a few small parts and that seems kind of silly to take that long.
One machine not mentioned is the new handheld cnc machine that is aboit to come out the "shaper origin" its $1700 but you have to drive it by hand which again i think not right for a cnc i dont want to babysit it. I just want to check it while im working on other things (after its setup and tuned properly).
NONE OF THESE OPTIONS COME WITH A STAND
Gryphon http://www.gryphoncnc.com/machine-and-electronics/
$2100-$4000
Assembled, 18x18 to 4x8 (and tons of sizes inbetween), gear driven, need to upgrade spindle to router (it’s a dremel stock)
X-Carve https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve/customize#1000mm
1000mm(x) 1000mm(y) 65mm(z) (actual cutting at 750mm x 750mm (29.5 inches)
$1474 use their free EASEL (very basic) for cam/cad, wasteboard and clamps dewalt router
$2052 with v-carve pro – 11 bits , wasteboard and clamps
Pro’s
Huge community base, well documented kits, free content, single box control unit (psu, stepper motor drivers and controller, nema 23 steppers
Cons
Belt driven, Need to fully assemble kit but comes with full kit everything needed. hobbyist grade
Shapeoko 3 https://shop.carbide3d.com/collections/machines/products/shapeoko-xl-kit?variant=29273233798
$1830 (dewalt router) (XXL): 33"(X) x 33"(Y) x 3"(Z) , nema 23 steppers
Pro’s
Huge community base, well documented kits, single box control unit (psu, stepper motor drivers and controller, nema 23 steppers, appears more ridged than xcarve, its partially assembled
Cons
Belt driven, hobbyist grade
SMW3D Big OX CNC https://www.smw3d.com/ox-diy-cnc-kit/
$1480 22” x 30” Seems significantly more ridgid than xcarve and shapeoko 3, 400watt spindle better belts, mechanical and motors only no electronics included. $1581.45 with TinyG controller which is a cnc controller
Con’s this is a complete diy build and not knowing what is needed for the electronics can cause some headaches and wasted time.
R7 SMW3D
$2223 https://www.smw3d.com/r7-cnc-diy-kit/
800mmX800mm cut area, acme screw driven, tiny g controller, 800w spinle (water cooled), nema 23 stepper motors, ridgid machine, no software included.
Con’s this is a complete diy build and not knowing what is needed for the electronics can cause some headaches and wasted time.
OPEN BUILDS C-Beam $1059
http://openbuildspartstore.com/c-beam-machine-xlarge-mechanical-bundle/
13”x29.5” cut area. About 1” to 1-1/4” deep cuts, acme screw driven. No electronics what so ever aside from nema 23 motors. Probably my least favorite option of the bunch.
Comments
I am looking at starting on a smaller scale - say 4x2 or 4x3 and then expanding on to 4x8 down the line. So, ability to extend later on would be good.
A friend has a 3 axis cnc available for sale, but at $6k including the prograde software, its way beyond my budget.
Both of my teenage sons use it for other purposes and even their friends can quickly whip up designs on Easel without any training. I sometimes have to clean up their designs before we carve (we need to leave some place to put the clamps, etc...), but the corrections are usually minor.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
X-carve is chicago based so you could save on shipping by pickojg it up. It also appears its upgradeable from the smaller one to the larger one thats a nice feature.
There are also the china 3020 and 6040 size machines with somewhat mixed reviews but they are the most bought i think.
For speaker stuff 24 wide by 48 is atleast enough to get towers made up unless they are 2 pieces. Im still reaearching the trapezoidal, lead screw, ball screw, acme threaded, belt options to see what they are all about next. Upgradability to a larger model is very important to me i plan to move within lime 3-5 years and get a bigger workspace.
What is the actual cut size of it 750x750? Also does it cut 3/4" mdf and 3/4" ply fairly quickly? Like how long would it take to cut our your small builds?
Sehlin Sound Solutions
X-axis quick mod of joining the 2 maker rails
https://discuss.inventables.com/t/a-30-minute-x-axis-mod-to-reduce-chatter/15775/19
Mod pack 1 - Another xaxis mod and a few other nice to have changes
https://discuss.inventables.com/t/x-carve-mod-pack-1/21321
Mod pack 2 -
https://discuss.inventables.com/t/x-carve-mod-pack-2/31430
Y-axis expansion info
https://discuss.inventables.com/t/expanding-the-x-carve-size-bigger-then-1000x1000mm/14816/33
I'll chime in on the disadvantages of the smaller machines and feed/speed related issues in a bit.
I am go to go backwards with the explanations so it makes more sense.
Most of you heard the feed and speed mentioned in connection with operating CNC router.
Feed is how fast the spindle moves in XYZ and speed is how fast your tool rotates.
As the tool touches the material, every revolution cutting edge takes a slice off and the tool moves forward. Every slice of the removed material caries away heat so the tool stays cool. If you spinning too fast, tool gets overheated because there's not enough material taken away and the cutting edge gets dull very quickly. If you spinning too slow, tool breaks because you simply pushing it against uncut material. There's always a perfect pair then you can run your tool for literally a day and it'll stay sharp.
This ideal combination is calculated based on the tool geometry. Most manufacturers will provide the formulas or plug and play online calculators.
Here's the issue with low powered routers. XYZ motors cannot maintain needed torque to stay within the “Perfect pair” range. The results are either increased use of router bits (because you running too slow and overheating) or the router bogs down and breaks the bit.
Most people will choose to feed slower at the expense of router bits. Here's the difference. Proper feed and speed will give you 20 hours + routing MDF if the machine has enough torque. You can also kill the same bit in an hour from overheating.
I have NEMA34 and 2.2 kwt spindle. This is barely enough to fly through MDF if you planing on doing any sort of commercial work.
Next is the rigidity of the frame.
Do whatever you like. Bolt or weld your XY rails to a metal frame. Bolt some 1.5” MDF to it. Make sure it is as solid and heavy as it can be. Ideally, your frame, housing CNC rails should be bolted to the concrete floor and leveled with engineer’s level. There's no such thing as a CNC router that's too sturdy.
Z travel.
Majority of the work you will be doing is profiling .75 MDF or Ply. Not much Z travel needed for that.
But if and then you will get in to 2.5D work, actuall Z capability is formed from the thickness of your material and the length of the bit. For example, if your Z travel is 5” then you can machine materiel of 2.5” thick with a bit of 2.5” lengths.
Tramming the spindle.
Super important! There's a video or two on youtube.
Do not skip this if you want to have any sort of accuracy. If you slammed your spindle in to the material, you will have to redo tramming.
As far as hand held CNC router, my recommendation is to stay away. Price is high and capability is low. It would probably work well for onsite installers but not for fabricators.
I don't want to plug CNCRP but there's nothing bad to say about them. I did buy parts in stages. They did help me with troubleshooting. Customer service is superb. Their new linear rail machines should be a step up from previous gen. They will work with you on custom size machines.
Not at all. I cut through 3/4" IN .2 steps with .25" BIT AT 220 IPM AND 14000RPM.
My neighbor cuts .75 in a single pass at 600ipm. His CNC is well over $125k.
"Im looking at their 2x4 pro machines its like 6k that seems kinda crazy. Im not even sure if that includes everything. No way i could get my money back out of that id need to do like 100 or 200 jobs"
You could make $20k on one job, cutting parts all day long. Depends on your customer base. Making speakers for $ is certainly not the best rout. People will chisel and dime you all the way.
Sign making is more likely to make $ if that's the purpose of your CNC build.
"If the desktop version is expandable in the future maybe thats an option but it may be to small to do anything useful with. "
You could do desktop as a learning project. Forget about making $ with the desktop, just look at it as a college course investment. Learn the software. Crash the machine. Damage cheap MDF. It may be worth it. By the time you done, you will know exactly how big of a machine you need.
http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5032&start=10
CNC parts is preferable but gryphon is affordable, but then 3k is also substantial.
I do cabinetwork and furniture parts.
The video is speed-ed up. Real thing took like 25 min. Solid maple curved legs.
I've gotten Ok with flip milling as well.
Take your time. Research a bit more and build in stages. It took me over 4 month to get the machine to do anything sensible from the time I paid for the rail kit.
You also have to decide how much work you want to do, building CNC. Most of the parts can be purchased for $3k or less but you'll have to do all your wiring yourself.
the pro adds expandablity and more stiffer parts, though i don't see why we can just change the rails for the standard 2x4 and expand it too (the main part is the 4ft gantry which is common in 2x4, 4x4 and 4x4.
I mean if the machine is nice you can always sell it if you dont use it as much as you think you would doesnt work out. 2x4 feet is kind of ideal i guess i cant get 4x8 sheets in my car. I can do like 28x50 in my car but thats it!
https://www.routakit.com/store.html#!/Routakit-SD-+-Starterkit/p/50580495/category=0
The marketplace I go-to got a new CNC router 2x4 machine. This is good enough for me. In fact 2x4 is good as I too can't for anything bigger than 3x4 in my car with the rear seats down. If we change out the side rails, should be able to extend further.